serai | Dogma biscuits

Geez... I take it you've heard about those nutters who advocate whipping babies? They say things like: 'If your child hits or kicks you need to give them the switch because they need to learn that violence is bad.' Or something. Unbelievable.

Yeah. I really love the ones that advocate putting breastfeeding babies on a rigid schedule, so that feedings revolve around the mothers' convenience rather than the babies' hunger. Then they wonder why the kids slowly starve to death or develop extreme psychological disorders.

Because, you know, Jesus said that children should suffer.

*eyeroll* Or the one where a mother writes to the creepy author of one of those horrible books, saying: 'every time I beat my 3 year old daughter, she gets all rigid and acts really scared.' And the creep says: 'Well, this sounds like a child being mortally afraid, but since this can not be the case here, there must be something wrong with your daughter.' 0_o Or when a little child has a cookie, the mother should take it away, beat the child, then deny the child his or her dinner, but make him or her watch while the other family members eat a lovely meal, all the while telling the child it's his or her own fault, because he or she is such a glutton.

What is WRONG with these people?! Don't they realize how harmful they are? ACK! Jesus does not love them; Jesus is ashamed of them. Things like these really make me doubt there is a God, because if there was, (s)he would stop the crazy people, wouldn't (s)he?

They're weak-minded children who can't think for themselves, scared of the world and scared of the future and scared of death and scared of themselves. They think they need a Big Daddy with a Really Big Stick to tell them what to do, even if it makes hash of their brains and hell of their children's lives. So they make great targets for any power-hungry asshole who promises to do their thinking for them.

Pretty pathetic, when you get right down to it.

This reminds me of a lot of other very scary scenarios. But you're right. We all look for guidance and purpose, but this mindless behaviour can't be the right way. You can't say all religions are bad, I guess, because someone who converts to Buddhism and devotes the rest of their life to promoting peace and love is alright in my book. They would not call Christians pagans either, but the fundies would call them that in a heartbeat. Wasn't it you who posted that Youtube clip not too long ago? That was a Hindu 'priest' they were harrassing, wasn't it? It really made me feel embarrassed to watch it.

Makes me a little scared to leave my house knowing there are so many people out there that think like that! *hides*

I can deal with the asshats in the street. What freaks me out is the ones running the government and the military. Our entire infrastructure is honeycombed with these psychos, and most people don't even know it.

That is amazingly... pathetic. Ouch! I need to wash out my brain!

LMAO. I mean it. I read some of the ignorant horseshit on that site and just laughed till I cried. And the comments are hilarious. If they think they're going to prove God's existence with that sort of drivel, they're brain-dead. Oh, wait, that's stating the obvious.

Did you read the one of the teenage girl who told her Wiccan classmate she was evil and going to hell, and who then was surprised she was being suspended from school? when I read stuff like that, I'm inclined to believe it's not real, because how can it be? But I'm afraid it is...

My dear, I believe it is real. My sister and her husband were stationed in Florida when he was in the Navy, and she told me that there were Baptist missionaries who would come around visiting the neighborhoods, handing out tracts, and they would begin their proselytizing by asking, "Have you accepted Christ as your personal savior?" and if you said no, they would say, "Did you know you're going to hell?"

My own beliefs are different from most of my family. But my sister is a Christian, and believes in the whole thing. My older brother was a Church of God minister who had to retire when his health got too bad for him to continue. My younger brother is a Church of God minister. You don't get more fundamental than that. But none of them would say such a thing to anyone. They will witness to their faith and talk to anyone who wants to talk about it, but I can't see any of them saying such a stupid, ignorant, hate-promoting thing as that.

I laugh at them, but I don't underestimate them. They'd have all of us living under their oppressive rule if they could manage it.

I went to the church wedding of a classmate of mine in march, where she was confirmed before everyone and had to declare she was sinful and ashamed of herself, and then accept Jesus as her lord and saviour. I thought that was a bit harsh, on her wedding day, but apparently it's normal. The whole thing seemed terribly iffy to me.

Yeah, the lord save us from the fundamentalist who do all these crazy things in his name. I am convinced the way they go about matters is not what he intended at all. They are just so clueless, it's not even funny. Well, sometimes it is, but other times it's just sad, and scary.

People like that don't have anything to do with Jesus. They go on and on about how much they love him, but he's really just a hood ornament to them. The way they behave proves that they don't actually listen to a word he said.

Exactly. Because Jesus is all about love, but to these asshats love is only good when it's between good, upstanding, God fearing people, like themselves. Love between people of different races, or love between people of the same sex is sinful. Ehm, yes, but isn't love unconditional and undiscriminating? Apparently not. Well, to use a very bad pun: I'm preaching to the choir here. It's totally disgusting, the way these people think and act. You're right: it does not have anything to do with Jesus whatsoever. I really admire Jesus, but I'm not religious at all.

Well, Jesus did say a lot of terrific things, but the guy had a real attitude problem. If you read the gospels carefully, you'll see he got irritated and pissed off rather a lot. He hated having his authority questioned, and rarely missed a chance to snap at someone, even though he usually granted their requests when he'd calmed down. And for gods' sakes, the guy killed a perfectly innocent tree because it didn't have any fruit for him to eat when he felt peckish. That's an awfully prickly dude right there.

But for the most part, he did teach good stuff.

*LOL* I guess he was very passionate about everything he did. :D I'd love to read a good biography about him as a person, but I don't think there many of those, because the authors would immediately be pestered by the fundies. As soon as someone even hints that Jesus was just a man, with a man's needs and faults, the proverbial shit hits the fan.

But that's just why I think he's fascinating: because he was human, just like you and me. Even though he could do some stuff, he was still a man. With my background, I've seen it from both sides: my parents aren't religious, but they always put me on Christian schools, because their friends' children went there, and the schools had good reputations. I quickly learned how hypocritical it all was, though. Like, one day a boy came up to me and hit me, and I hit him back. Guess who got detention? Me, because I should have turned the other cheek. Yeah, right! In secondary school it was even worse. You won't believe the total asswipes they had 'teaching' there, and spouting nonsense.

For a long time I didn't want anything to do with it, but then I started travelling to Greece, and I saw how important Easter was to the Greek people, and I really started to think about what Easter meant, and I got more interested in Jesus' life story. That's how I ended up being a Jesus fan. But I'm not religious. Not at all. I guess it would be impossible to explain this to a Christian, though. :)

Oh, it's real, alright. Personally, that story gives me some hope, because it means that at least some people are starting to understand just how harmful these religious nuts are. Let's hope more school officials starts suspending those little pricks.

I totally agree. I was very pleased at the way the fundie girl was treated. Apparently this is a pretty liberal, modern school. Had this happened in a more Christian oriented area, things would have turned out a lot different, I'm sure.

Too bad the fundie girl didn't learn anything from it. That's the sad thing: the more these people are opposed, the more they believe their ways are right and the more fanatical they get in wanting to turn the rest.

They're still operating on that whole mythical idea of Christians being "persecuted" as a part of their history, which is a load of bull. Christians have never been persecuted for being Christians. When people came after them, it was for their behavior, not their religion.

The Romans had great respect for religion and encouraged people to be pious. They disliked the Christians because they were uncivil, as in disruptive and disrespectful of the law and social order. (And all that torturing and death? A myth, mostly. The Romans didn't like torturing anybody. They much preferred that people behave themselves and be polite.) The Puritan sects did not leave Europe for America because of a lack of "freedom"; it was because nobody could stand their snotty scolding and nagging ways, so they kept getting run out of town wherever they went. The Muslims have historically been extremely tolerant and open as far as other people's religions go, but when the barbarian Christians (who were living in drafty stone piles and painting themselves blue when the Muslims were at the peak of philosophical and scientific culture) came over on their friggin' crusades and started slaughtering everyone, naturally they got rather resentful and fought back.

Everywhere Christians have gone, they've fucked things up for themselves and then cried "persecution!" when people have had the temerity to not like them much. Bunch of bullies, when you get down to it: happy to sneer at others and beat up anybody they think is smaller than them, but then they whine and cry when they get knocked on their asses. *eyeroll*

Yeah, they like being the 'victim' don't they? And they've really done it with those Muslims, because now the Muslims hate the Chritians (infidels) with a vengeance, and we've all seen what that can lead to. *sigh*

As for the Romans: I totally believe they were a civil people, but didn't you say at one time that there was also a lot of truth to all the horrible things we see in tv-series like 'Rome'? Or maybe that was just about the sex and the getting rid of (political or personal) rivals, but not about the way they treated the Christians?

But yeah, Christians really don't get how annoying they are, waving their bible in everyone's faces, and acting like they are right, and everyone else is going to hell. A friend of mine once encountered some Chritians who started going off about homosexuals, and how sinful they are, and my friend said: 'well, at least they don't go from door to door trying to force their ways and beliefs onto other people!' That was so brilliant!!

Well, Rome took place in the era just before Christianity, so it never touched on that subject at all. The Roman religion was very different from what we're used to, so the stuff in that series, while pretty accurate, doesn't discount the idea that they were religious. It's just that religion occupied a very different place for them. They didn't see religion as being a personal thing at all - it was a social contract between themselves as a people and their gods. That's why things like making the right sacrifices, dedicating actions and things to the gods, and such were considered civic duties, not personal obligations. Being a good Roman citizen automatically entailed honoring the gods. They had great respect for religion because they saw it as being the glue that held civilization together, and so they respected the religions of the peoples they ruled, so long as those religions did not interfere with the orderly running of the Empire.

Thus, the Hebrews who lived in the Empire were not impeded in any of their religious observances or beliefs. Their religion was an ancient one, and this was something the Romans understood and honored. So long as they paid their taxes and comported themselves in a seemly manner, they were free to follow their faith with no interference. It was the Jews in Palestine who were a problem, because some of them kicked hard against Roman rule. That's why the Romans began to crack down on them - not because of their faith, but because they defied the Empire.

The same went for the Christians when they eventually started spreading. The Romans were a very down-to-earth people. They expressed themselves in a very forthright, nuts-and-bolts kind of way. They weren't given to metaphor or high-flown mysticism, and preferred open, honest dealings. (I'm not talking about whackos like Caligula or Nero here, but the majority of Romans.) So when the Christians came along with their talk of abandoning family and country, of living "without male or female", of eating flesh and drinking blood, it completely upset and disgusted most upright Roman citizens. They were taken at their word, which is where the idea that Christians sacrificed babies and such came from. The Romans were simply believing what the Christians said about themselves!

But instead of realizing that they were being stubborn about using language that was getting them into trouble, they kept insisting on rebelling instead of getting along, and of course the Romans couldn't have that. But the myth of martyrdom has actually been WAY overblown over the centuries. The actual evidence shows that very few Christians were ever killed by the Romans, or even tortured in any way. Most of them gave in when asked to sacrifice to the gods, which only involved taking a pinch of incense and throwing it on the fire while saying a few words. That's really all the Romans wanted - a show of piety in order to honor their civic duty, to prove they had the interests of Rome at heart.

And yes, your friend's retort to that proselytizer was brilliant. I'll have to remember that one!

So the stories of the colisseum and the lions and everything are also a myth? I'm not being sarcastic here, just curious. You really know a lot about these things. And movies like Quo Vadis and Ben Hur are completely taking things out of proportion? Not to mention The Passion. How you must hate that movie. I think it's interesting, because, again, it's about Jesus, but the way those Romans are portrayed is VERY black & white. I've seen better depictions of the last days of Jesus' life.

Maybe it's because I've sort of had a Christian upbringing, with the schools I went to, but I'm interested in most of these stories about Biblical figures, like John the Baptist and King David, etc. But not from a religious viewpoint. Ancient history is interesting to me in any form.

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