serai: A kiss between Casey Connor and Zeke Tyler (WWSD)
[personal profile] serai
A while back, I was surfing one of the big archives (*coughffcough*), and came across yet another fic that treats Rosie Cotton as an inconvenience to be shoved aside. Clear as a bell at midnight, I heard Sam's voice answering back. Here's what he had to say - straight, no chaser.





I'll Have No More of It


I've a word or two to say to you. To all of you.

I know what you've been sayin' about her, about my Rosie. Aye, I've got ears, I'm not daft. I know you've been speaking ill of she who's my dearest, my light. And I'm sayin' now that I'll have no more of it.

And well I know who among you've been speakin' such lies. You, and you, and you there as well. Aye, don't be tryin' to sneak out from under my nose like a faunt tryin' to escape a switchin'. I say I know what you've been doin', and you'll all sit and hear me out good and proper.

For a long while now, all any of you've been able to think is how strange it is, me and Rosie and Mr. Frodo livin' up there at Bag End. Not proper, you whisper to each other, and odd goings on, and other such nonsense. And well do I know that you blame it on her, thinkin' that it's Mr. Frodo's house and all, and who does she think she is bargin' in like she has? Sayin' she should step aside, and that it's his claim that's the strongest.

Well and like, it may be true. I've known 'em both most of my life, but it's Mr. Frodo who's my master, and Rose was just a lass who caught my eye, 'til the day we went away. It was only a year that I traveled with him, but it seemed like twenty, and oft we thought we'd never make it home. And the burden was fair deadly on him, and ate him away from the inside, 'til naught was left but sinews and dust, and a light that shone through now and again, when it could get past the ashes.

But he was stronger than any of you think he was, for all that he looked little more than a ghost at the end of it. His heart and his bones were like an elf-sword, twere nothin' that could break 'em. Nothin', but that cursed thing he bore. All I did was keep him fed and watered when I could, and try to keep the terrors and that nasty slinkin' thing away from him. Just a gardener's job it was, though it were a long ways away from any true garden.

But he was strong and still he is, though he don't seem it. Aye, I learned a lot durin' my travels, and stayed a time in the White City, and learned things there from the tellers and from books. Stories about old times, and about the kinds of terrible things that happen both in tales and out of 'em. And I learned what folk can be driven to, when life takes 'em down dark roads, and I tell you that Mr. Frodo's stronger than you know, even now. He's here, isn't he? He's here, and not buried in the ground like a kit too weak to go on livin'. He sees his days through, even the dark ones, and doesn't run from his fate.

Aye, I love him, more than I can say. I love him for that strength, and for all he's done, for all of us. And I love him for his eyes like the sky, and his hands stained with ink, and his murmurs late at night when all the world's asleep and he sits up writin' with the ghosts hissin' and shriekin' around him. I love him powerful hard, and I'd do anything for him. And I have. I have.

But none of you, not a single one of you, know what that's like. To love someone so deep, hold him in your arms and have to watch him bein' eaten away, day after day. First his laugh, like a bell tollin' smaller and duller til it never sounds at all. The sparkle in his eyes filmin' over with weariness, like it were fadin' under dust that can't be wiped away. The spring in his step disappearin', becomin' a plod like a tired cart-pony, finally at the end even that bein' gone and all that's left is a crawl on hands and knees bleedin' and scabbed with ash. At the end everythin' that was him was gone - smile, song, stories, the glow of his warm heart beatin' against me, his touch. Everythin' but that steel strength that kept on pushin' him, and thanks be for that. Without it we'd all of us be dead or worse.

None of you know what that was like. Or what it was like to come back with him. What it's like to love someone who's only a ghost of what he was. Day after day watchin' and waitin', hopin' that maybe today will be the day I see him again, see some sign of the hobbit I loved from the very first mornin' he came strollin' up the hill behind his Uncle, all bright dark curls and eyes like them sapphires the Queen wears threaded through her hair.

But it's never that day, and it's a slow thing comin' that I've finally learned - it'll never be that day. The hobbit I loved is gone, gone forever. I'll never see that fire in his eyes again, or hear him laugh without stoppin', til I think he'll burst himself with it. He'll never throw marmalade cake at his cousins again, or dance like a lad round a tavern table, or best any of us at drinkin' ale. When I hold him now, it's with care that I do. It'll never be the hard wrestle it was when we were young and the fire took us both, when we couldn't get enough, slammin' each other against the walls and tuppin' like mad with the sweat rollin' off us, bellowin' like bulls roarin' in the barn. Strange to think on it, isn't it? But I tell you it was true, once on a time. There were days he was stronger than I was.

Now his limbs are like fine glass, and some nights he can't barely move, but with his eyes he asks for me anyway. And I touch him like he'll break in my hands, and his cries are soft like a babe's. And sometimes I come near to cramp in my legs and arms with wantin' him back the way he was. I've had hours weepin' in the storeroom where he can't hear, rememberin' him as he was, and wishin' there were some way I could make him whole and happy again.

None of you know what that's like.

But there's one thing that takes me through it, keeps me strong for him, and that's my Rose. Because she's so strong in herself, so strong and fine and full of sunlight. She's made of copper and gold and flower petals, honey and wine and them oranges from away South. There's never been a lass like my Rose, blossomin' bright and hot in the summer air. Her eyes keep me warm, and her lips call me love, and what's in her heart and under her skirts gives me what I need to keep on. If not for her, I don't know what I would've done. If not for the thought of her waitin' here for me, I don't know if I'd ever have returned, or cared enough to. If not for her, I don't know if I could face that bedroom door, or if I could keep bein' what he needs me to be when I close it behind me.

All them words you gossips call her, and all them nasty things you write to each other about her, I'll have you know now they're nothin' but lies. You don't know her heart, how big she is inside, how much bigger she is than any of you. Didn't she wait for me, when she could have had any of the lads in Hobbiton or Bywater? Didn't she help nurse Mr. Frodo when we'd come back from our travels, and he fell sick from his wakin' nightmares, and hasn't she kept on doin' so? Didn't she hear my askin' for her, and take my hand even knowin' how it was with me and him? And never a complaint have I heard from her about it, knowin' as she does how dear he is to me, and that he needs what I can give him. And I can give him that because she's as she is, so fair and strong and kind.

None of you know her. None of you know what we have, and how it's worth more than the lot of you, with your poison tongues and your jealousy. None of you have a heart big enough to take in what she has, and you think she's a schemer or worse than one. You're all too small to know what she is, or want to. You're too selfish to let us be what we are, and have what we have with each other, lovin' each other and carin' for him.

No, you know nothin', the lot of you. Well, to the plague with all of you, but I'll tell you this. Just this one thing. I care not what you think or say of me, but I'll not have you speakin' ill of my Rose. You've no call nor right to do so, not a one of you. She's my wife, my light and my strength, the sun above me and the ground where I'll plant my family, and if any of you want to do her harm, or treat her like she's anything less than the Queen of my heart, you'll have to go through me first to do it. And if you think I've even half a fear of any of you, you're sore mistaken, you are. I've faced worse than you, a thousand times over. I love 'em both and I'll keep lovin' 'em, as long as I can. I won't give up one to keep the other, and I won't give up either of them to still a single viper's tongue. Keep a mind what I'm tellin' you here.

I'll have no more of it.




Disclaimer: All credit for Middle-Earth and its extraordinary characters, places and stories go to the blessed Professor Tolkien. I don't make a dime off this, nor would I wish to.

Cross-posted to [livejournal.com profile] sean_astin_fans and [livejournal.com profile] prettygoodyear.
Page 1 of 3 << [1] [2] [3] >>

Date: Tuesday, August 19th, 2003 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] singeaddams.livejournal.com
I love it! Tear 'em a new one, Sam.

Date: Tuesday, August 19th, 2003 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] strangerian.livejournal.com
This was lovely when you posted it on whichever fic list it was, and it's still lovely. It really gives Sam's voice, I think, "clear as a bell," in telling us how Sam can feel two immense and different loves for two different people.

Date: Tuesday, August 19th, 2003 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keye.livejournal.com
Oh yes! This is just exquisite. This is the Sam I love so much it hurts. What a beautiful piece of work this is. Thank you so much for sharing it!

Yes.

Date: Tuesday, August 19th, 2003 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] willow-wode.livejournal.com
I loved this the first time I read it, and it is still wonderous.

How can you love more than one lover/mate?

Might as well ask how can you love more than one child.

Thanks for sharing this again, Serai. It's a necessary message about the reality, intricasies and possibilities of caring.

Date: Tuesday, August 19th, 2003 11:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Yeah, fierce Sam! A man - er, hobbit - after me own heart, he is. Mrawr!!

Date: Tuesday, August 19th, 2003 11:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Ay, that's because Sam's heart is so immense, he's got love enough and to spare.

I can't say as I know how I could choose between 'em. They're the Sun and the Moon to me, they are, and how could there be one without the other? Don't make no sense, if you take my meaning.

Date: Tuesday, August 19th, 2003 11:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Dear Sam. Such a beautiful voice he has. I feel privileged whenever he speaks to me.

Thanks for your kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)

Date: Sunday, August 24th, 2003 07:15 am (UTC)
fyrdrakken: (Funny guy)
From: [personal profile] fyrdrakken
Hear, hear! (Though I'm trying to decide how I feel about him referring to Rosie as "the ground where I'll plant my family." I can see him using that metaphor, being a gardener and all, but it still makes me wince at the symbolism.)

And regarding your icon, I'd noted it in recent weeks and recognized the line from "Velvet Green" -- but didn't recall until I went back to comment on your post about the Jethro Tull songs that you were in fact the same person who originally tried to point the hobbit fans to "Songs From the Wood" in the first place...

Now that's interesting

Date: Sunday, August 24th, 2003 07:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
What is it exactly about that line that makes you wince? Sam thinks of Rosie as being like the earth that nourishes and supoorts him, and which he loves and cares for in return. It's a respectful metaphor for him, and meant only lovingly. So I'm curious to know why it pricks you.

Glad you liked the piece! :)

Re: Now that's interesting

Date: Sunday, August 24th, 2003 10:39 am (UTC)
fyrdrakken: (Cynical)
From: [personal profile] fyrdrakken
I think I've just ran across too many feminist complaints along the lines of, "I am not your field for plowing." Referring to Rosie as earth to be planted seems to render her role in the reproductive process as essentially passive, even though she'll be doing "most of the work" involved in producing their myriad children. Coming near the end of a passage in which Sam was saying how much she means to him, it kind of struck me the wrong way -- even though I understood how he meant it, the phrasing just had the wrong associations for me.

And come to think of it, that bit further up the page where he was talking about Rosie renewing him with what she had in her heart and under her skirts, if I'm quoting it correctly from memory -- well, the reference to what was "under her skirt" seemed a bit overly flippant, and out of character for Sam, and again not really fitting the tone of the rest of the piece. Again, I think it's just hitting a kneejerk feminist reaction on my part against men valuing a woman's cunt over any other part of her, and even making her heart hold equal value in the same sentence didn't really seem to outweigh that blunt reference.

But, yeah, I liked the passage -- and those two bits I mention above only really stood out to me because they seemed to contrast so with what the rest of the piece was so clearly about.

Hmm. In rereading this I'm belatedly realizing that what's giving me pause are the references to what Rosie has that Frodo doesn't have -- not what he doesn't have anymore, those bits of his soul that Sam is talking about him having lost and not recovering, but what he never had and could never have offered to Sam, which is to say a family. And a lot of F/S authors "explain away" Sam's canonical marriage by Frodo insisting that Sam should have the family he so clearly wants -- by reducing Rosie's emotional significance to Sam solely to that of baby-machine and possible Frodo-substitute. Which can turn Rosie's fertility into something of a loaded subject...

Re: Now that's interesting

Date: Sunday, August 24th, 2003 07:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Ah, I see what you mean. I'm a feminist myself, have been most of my life, but I'm also a dyed-in-the-wool pagan, and the idea of a woman being like the earth has a depth of sacredness to me that can't be politicized away. The image of a man "ploughing the field" is used, for example, in Sumerian devotional poetry, which is some of the most beautiful and erotic, as well as deeply spiritual, literature I know. Sam's vision of Rosie as the ground from which his family springs is almost religious for him, and I completely feel what he means by it. If a man were to think of me as being like the earth (at least the way Sam means it here), I'd be honored by the compliment, for seeing ourselves as somehow above or separate from the earth feels completely wrong to me.

Fertility and sexuality are tied very deeply to my religious outlook, so though I can intellectually understand the ideas you're referencing, I simply can't understand them on an emotional level. And I don't feel comfortable with the idea that women are somehow "above" being identified by fertility and sexuality, which is the impression I get sometimes from feminist authors and thinkers. This difference between us and men is a big part of our identity, and I see no point in trying to minimize it or make it go away with words.

You make an interesting point about Rosie giving Sam what Frodo never could, and Sam is completely aware of that. It's why the pairing I find truest and deepest is RSF. Each of them gives Sam something completely different, yet both give him deep and heartfelt love. Two halves of the whole that fills his heart. And I certainly object to the idea that Sam finding strength in "what's in her heart and under her skirts" is somehow a putdown. Rosie is just as much his lover as Frodo, and his lovemaking with her is an incredibly powerful thing for him. It literally gives him the strength he needs to deal with what Frodo has become - something pitiable and terrible and unlooked-for, and yet still loving and beautiful. A shadow and a ghost, haunting Sam with memories of both dreadful darkness and his heart's desire, which he'll never see again.

And I can't imagine Rosie being put off in the slightest by those phrases. On the contrary, she'd laugh and throw back a twist on them, teasing him with an invitation to "come and bless her fields, lad, as is right and proper". These are agrarian folk, and the language of the land is ingrained in them, as natural as breathing. The modern ideas that create the rift you're talking about would make absolutely no sense at all to Sam or Rosie, and would probably just make Frodo smile and shake his head.

Many S/F writers talk about how the Quest changes Frodo, how it empties him and makes him unable to function completely in the world, so that he depends on Sam. (He also depends on Rosie, but most writers are reluctant to explore that.) But I find their view of the situation somewhat unrealistic in that there seems to be no sense of burden on Sam - he never tires, or grows frustrated, or feels less than up to the task. But I can't imagine that caring for Frodo, especially given the love they had before that Sam describes to me, could be anything but daunting and occasionally exhausting. Before the quest, there was Sam and Frodo, and they didn't need anyone else, though they certainly had plenty of room in their hearts to love others, friends and family and lovers. But after the Quest, the strain on Sam's heart is too much, and without Rosie he might well collapse under the burden of mingled sadness and love and desire and pain. She becomes the other half of his heart, and together they complete the circle that once held only two.

But Sam's already described all that in the fic, and anything I say is just yammering about it.

Aye, you're right there. All this talk is just words, and words won't grow no corn.

Sorry, Sam. (smile)

I'll say it again, though, as it seems I ought. Aye, Rosie's the earth I plant in, but where would a gardener like me be without it? Might as well ask where I'd be without food or water. Don't make no sense, if you take my meaning.

Re: Yes.

Date: Sunday, August 24th, 2003 07:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
I'm so glad you enjoy this story, Willow. Your workd was some of the first hobbit slash I read, so it's a real compliment to hear you say you like mine. Though I don't feel like I wrote this story at all - I literally heard Sam's voice speaking these words, and feel that I was just a conduit for him to express his indignation at the way his beloved wife is treated sometimes.

Might as well ask how can you love more than one child.

*sigh* Yes, indeed. So odd that so many hobbit writers see and acknowledge how big and nourishing and extraordinary Sam's heart is, and yet they can't deal with the idea that he could love both his friend and his wife. Why in the world not? I couldn't imagine Sam not loving Rosie, given her spirit and willingness to commit to caring for Frodo. Tolkien reports that Frodo's post-Quest life at Bag End was wonderful, that no other hobbit was ever so well-cared for. How can that jibe with Sam being married in name only, or some kind of simmering undercurrent of jealousy or bitterness? It just doesn't fit for me. It goes contrary to what the Professor explicitly established, that Sam became happy and prosperous, and his only sorrow was in the lack of general respect for Frodo. I can't see Sam being happy if he was tied to a wife he didn't love, or if that wife resented his master's presence in their life.

Date: Sunday, August 24th, 2003 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fishtoes.livejournal.com
this is a VERY well done piece, and indeed it sounds like Sam speaking rather than "the author AS Sam".

I'll be completely honest, as an avid reader of S/F, I havnen't always been a big fan of Rosie or her place in lotr (don't shoot!). But then, this may also have to do with the fact that I love Sam (as much as one can a fictitious character), and wished I was her myself :)

This piece really changed the way I see her, proving Sam's little diatribe effective.

thank you.

Date: Monday, August 25th, 2003 01:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Ooo, thank you! You couldn't have given me a higher compliment than that. You've really made my day! :)

I know what you mean about loving Sam so much, indeed. Yet, paradoxically, that's why I so connect with stories that treat Rosie lovingly - because she's my standin. I identify with her, and imagine myself in her place.

Now that you feel differently about her, have you read Mary Borsellino's Pretty Good Year? That's my absolutely favorite post-Quest vision, dealing with Frodo's last year in the Shire. It's completly down-to-earth, about family and love and laughter and the land, breakfasts and laundry and cake and market day, and circling around its edges are the ghosts that haunt Frodo, intruding just enough to finally pull him away. I love that story dearly, and in its real and immediate way I think it's a worthy match to Professor Tolkien's grand and magical vision.

Date: Monday, August 25th, 2003 01:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fishtoes.livejournal.com
aww, you're welcome!

"your standin" hmm...never thought of it that way...

No, I haven't read it, but oooh thanks so much for reccomending it. I'm a sucker for good fanfiction.

and the title has gotten the tori amos song of the same name stuck in my head now.

Re: Now that's interesting

Date: Monday, August 25th, 2003 03:06 am (UTC)
fyrdrakken: (Beauty)
From: [personal profile] fyrdrakken
You're preaching to the choir in terms of Sam needing Rosie to give him balance in the aftermath of the Quest and while he's dealing with what Frodo's become -- I write F/S/R, remember.

And I completely understand both the reverence Sam gives to the earth and the way plowing and planting can be used as sexual metaphors -- I've used them myself, though not in anything I've actually written up and posted -- and upon giving the matter further thought I'd have had no issues with the likening of Rosie to a field for planting a crop had she made the comment herself, or had we seen her reaction to Sam's usage of the metaphor. Similarly, had a bit more been made of the sexual renewal Sam finds with Rosie, rather than the reference seeming to be just a passing remark he made, I would have appreciated it more.

I think your comment about being a pagan is a really telling point -- or more specifically, where you say that your reverence for the earth can't be politicized away. It's a case of the associations with certain things being different between reader and author -- and without a lot of time being spent in the passage to make the associations explicit, the shorthand reference to Rosie being the earth for growing a family is going to trigger reactions based on how each individual reader feels about that metaphor. In my own case, though I also don't feel that women are "above" being identified by fertility and sexuality, I strongly resent any instances of women seemingly being defined solely in terms of said fertility and sexuality. And that wasn't what your piece was about -- it was Sam explaining all that Rosie means to him, and sex and children were quite rightly a portion of the whole -- but the imagery just happened to strike a fairly strong negative reaction in me that I intellectually understood didn't match the rest of the piece but that grated on me nonetheless. Like you said above about understanding ideas intellectually but just not connecting with them on an emotional level -- I'm not a gardener and would personally be likely to resent being compared to dirt unless I knew the person doing the comparing well enough to understand what was meant...

Date: Monday, August 25th, 2003 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Well, that's where she got the title from! Mary also made a video of that song with images from FOTR. Goddess, every time I watch it, I cry. Every damn time. It's up at the PGY site, which is here:

Pretty Good Year

The video is on that home page. The first link on the left side takes you to the book. At the bottom of the table of contents you'll see two links, one to East of the Sun, which picks up and continues the story along the line that Tolkien wrote, and the other to West of the Moon, which picks up the story at the same point, but veers into an AU in which Frodo did not leave the Shire. I'd recommend reading PGY first, then East, then West. Enjoy! :)

Re: Now that's interesting

Date: Monday, August 25th, 2003 03:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Ah, well. See I don't see the earth as "dirt", and neither would any gardener or farmer. The earth is what keeps us alive, it is our Mother, and we owe everything to the earth we live on. Even though modern culture would like to forget that (like the way some people would like to forget or deny evolution), I certainly could never do that.

Here's an interesting little fact that may tell you something about the origin of that feeling for me (though it's not the sole origin). I'm Spanish, my family is from Spain, and English is my second language (I didn't start speaking it 'til I started school). Did you know there's no word for "dirt" in Spanish? Or rather, there's no word that encompasses all the definitions that "dirt" does in English. There's tierra, which means both "soil" (as in the stuff you plant seeds in) and the Earth itself, and mugre which means the kind of dirt that's meant when you get dirty. And in verbs, there's ensuciar which means to get something dirty or stained (sucio). The only verb connected with tierra is enterrar, which means to bury. So in my native language, there is no connection verbally between the earth and anything that fouls or stains. That's one of the reasons for my inability to see the earth as anything I wouldn't want to be.

As to how the phrase came up in the piece, well, I had no control over that, honestly. I was not writing that piece. Rather, I was taking dictation from Sam, who literally spoke all of this stuff in my head. And pretty damn insistently, too - I had to write it down, he wouldn't leave me alone otherwise. I've always felt that I don't create the things I write, they just come to me from the Muse. But this was ridiculous! I feel honored that Sam speaks to me now and then, but there's his words, not mine. Even though that may sound like a copout, believe me, it's not.

Sorry about the preaching part. LOL, I knew you understood that. I just can't resist writing through whatever points are relevant to the argument I'm making, and sometimes I go on a bit too far. Sorry about that! :)

Re: Now that's interesting

Date: Monday, August 25th, 2003 09:43 am (UTC)
fyrdrakken: (Blue)
From: [personal profile] fyrdrakken
Oh, I totally understand the way different people bring different associations to various concepts, whether through culture or past background. No author can control what their readers bring into their interpretation of a work. And the character dictation, too -- I had a story once that came about because one of the minor characters had a speech to make, and I needed a story to fit that monologue into... Sometimes the muses just won't let you alone! I also know about letting the argument take on a life of its own and lead off into tangents...

Date: Monday, August 25th, 2003 03:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] westmoon.livejournal.com
Thanks for the info on Pretty Good Year, Serai. I've been meaning to read this for a while, and your Sam just talked me into it!

Date: Monday, August 25th, 2003 11:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreamiflame.livejournal.com
You tell 'em, Sam. This is absolutely lovely. I think a lot of slashers really need to read this.

Date: Tuesday, August 26th, 2003 12:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danachan.livejournal.com
Oh, I like this, I love it. Go Sam, you tell him what for! Really love the life it brings to his voice.

Date: Tuesday, August 26th, 2003 03:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Well, I'm flattered! Feel free to pimp it around if you so desire. :)

Sick sacrilege

Date: Thursday, August 28th, 2003 09:47 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I find the idea that Sam and Frodo were gay lovers both ridiculous and deeply offensive, and I am sure that Tolkien would share my views. Why can't two males have a deep friendship without it having to originate in buggery?

Date: Thursday, August 28th, 2003 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] serai1.livejournal.com
Yay! I think you'll really enjoy it. :)
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