Some ruminations...

[serai]

...on the recent Elijah/photomanip thing.

A number of folks have posted about this today. Their posts, and those of the folks commenting, have made for very interesting reading. So here's my 5 pesetas.





Pretty much everyone whose reactions I've read has shown outrage, dismay and sadness over Elijah being shown what is reported to be an erotic photomanipulation of him and another man (possibly Orlando) during the recent press conference in Czechoslovakia. It's seen as an intrusion on his privacy and just a very rude thing to do. I happen to agree with that. It's always been my personal code to act in as civil a manner as possible around any famous persons I meet, especially those I admire. I mean, it must be very difficult to keep up one's better self with total strangers constantly - why in the world should I add to that difficulty?

But all this raises some interesting questions. As I said, everyone who's commented on this sees the event as a violation of Elijah's privacy and an extremely rude act, so we would never do it. The girls who did it saw it as an act of fandom and something fun, so they did it. The one thing we don't know is how Elijah sees it, because as so many have commented (and rightly so), we don't know him.

Yes, he winced when he saw the pic. But what did he do then? He laughed and commented on it to the audience. After the press conference, he talked to the girls who gave him the pic. What did he do with the pic afterward? Nobody knows.

So what can we deduce? That Elijah was surprised by the drawing. (We saw his expression when he opened the envelope.) That it did not enrage or discombobulate him. (Other than that first wince, he did not show any negative emotion over the pic.) That he is gracious enough not to let it faze him, and that he found it trivial enough that he felt okay with telling the audience what he'd seen. (He could easily have put the pic down and pretended it never happened, and passed any questions off.) That it neither shocked nor disgusted him enough to snub the girls, nor scared him enough to alert security. (He could have thought it perfectly within his rights to just ignore them afterwards.)

Other than that, our own outrage and dismay is based on what we think of the event. It clearly is not based on what he thinks of it. It seems to me (though I might be wrong) that Elijah thinks far less of it than any of us do. I'm pretty sure it bugged him, but I'm also fairly sure not to the extent that it's bugging so many folks here.

In our anger, we may be playing out the flip side of the girls who gave him that manip, the chaste side of the "madonna/whore" dynamic. I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth or thoughts in anyone's head, but it seems to me we're making just as many assumptions about Elijah's reactions as the girls who thought the whole thing a blast, when we don't know anything about what those reactions truly are (assuming he hasn't already shrugged his shoulders and brushed the whole thing aside). It occurs to me that many folks feel very angry about this in just the same way that some parents get when their children happen across porn sites on the internet. They raise a great hue-and-cry over how their kids will be "traumatized", when the average kid would just think the images gross, or hysterically funny. That is, if the kid is balanced, self-confident and not given to freaking out over seeing the unexpected.

And this raises some very interesting questions about the sort of fandom we're all indulging in here. I speak now about the sexy-fantasizing, fic-writing, slashy sort of fandom. The kind that has only really found a vibrant life on the internet, where it's possible to be well-known internationally (though admittedly on a very limited scale) while at the same time remaining completely anonymous. The kind that most of us don't talk about in our real lives, except to very close, trusted people. The kind of fandom, interestingly enough, that most of us would never want Elijah to know about. (In fact, a number of people are concerned for fear of being hounded into silence, a fear that presumably comes from the assumption that he would look down or be upset about our activities.)

In the stories we write and the pics we make, we create scenarios and lives and worlds that do not exist, in order to place the people we admire (or lust after, which may be the same thing depending on your outlook) where we want them, and have them act out our private fantasies. Some of us are bolder than others, thus the wide variety of stuff created. But it all shares one common reality: We all treat Elijah like a Ken doll, when it comes right down to it. The only difference between us and the girls that shoved the pic in his face just to see what he'd do is that in our case, he doesn't know about it.

Now, understand what I'm saying here. I'm not making excuses for what those chicks did. Courtesy and civility have their own values, values worth cultivating for their own sake (and which are sadly disappearing, else this incident wouldn't have happened). See, that's the thing about courtesy and/or rudeness - their worthiness (or lack of it) isn't all based on what the recipient thinks. Whether Elijah would be upset or tickled by such a picture is irrelevant. I would not show it to him because I believe such a thing would be rude, and rudeness is Not A Good Thing. Only if Elijah were to look in my eyes and tell me with all honesty that he really enjoys seeing such things would I consider doing it.

But even so, all of these are my ideas about it. When I get put out by such a story, I'm reacting with my values and beliefs about behavior, not his. (After all, this is a guy who has dissed a friend's film in public, an act I found shockingly rude, and one for which I'd smack him upside the head were I his mother, not to mention his publicist!) But in thinking about this, I'm finding myself not quite so angry anymore, because I realize that, when it comes to Elijah's feelings, this whole thing probably isn't all that serious, that I really have no right to be outraged on behalf of a stranger whose opinions I'm not privy to, and that, most importantly, Elijah isn't some little kid likely to be traumatized and who needs me to keep him safe.

Elijah's an adult. Despite his joking about "Did I do that ever?", he knows perfectly well those pics are fantasies. They have nothing to do with him. All of us have commented on one occasion or another about how incredibly sure of himself Elijah seems, how balanced, poised and gracious he has managed to stay in such a crazy business, and how sweetly he treats others. He chooses to treat these sorts of incidents with equanimity, and not to fly into rages or burst into tears. (And we all know that neither of those reactions would be unheard-of from a Hollywood movie star.) He's never even said anything to the effect of "I wish people wouldn't do that. I really don't like seeing such pictures", which wouldn't be an outrageous reaction. To be honest, I can easily imagine him smiling at any one of us and patting our shoulders, saying "Hey, don't be so upset. It's not that big a deal, really. It was actually kind of funny."

On this occasion (as I understand it), a number of people descended on the LJ of the girl who posted the pics and left angry comments, admonishing her for her and her friends' behavior. Far from listening and feeling contrite, it seems she has simply locked her journal, and at this very moment is probably lamenting those posters' "meanness" to her friends. She may not have learned anything from this other than the idea that being open about her fannish activities is unwise. Had she been approached more gently, she might have regretted her actions. Something along the lines of "How wonderful that you met him! But you know, American guys can be very weird about such things, and you may well have upset him without meaning to" might have gotten through to her where anger and accusations most likely did not.

Just think of the folks who come to slash journals and post ugly flames about how disgusting we are. How many of us have ever paid any attention to such remarks (other than possibly being upset at the lack of sympathy inherent in them)? How many of us are likely to stop writing our stories because of them, and how many of us just ban the commenter or disable anonymous posting? (Heck, I've seen such reactions to a simple feedback or a challenging argument, let alone an actual flame.) In a word, how effective is anger in dealing with something like this, given that the deed is done and there's no remedy for it?

So may I gently suggest that we follow Elijah's very adult and eminently compassionate example? Instead of getting all upset and flying off the handle, let's use this event (and others like it, should they occur) not as excuses for anger or looking down on others, but as opportunities to try and set some of our less, er, controlled sistren on a quieter, less intrusive path. There would be less tension in the fandom, and we'd all be happier, if we did as Elijah does on these occasions - laugh, reach out, and keep the anger to ourselves.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.






ETA: OK, I've now seen the video myself, as I'd only seen a couple of photos before. I'm now convinced this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. Yes, he was discomfited, but that's all the reaction he gave, at least to my eye. To me, it looked like his usually gracious "oh dear, what people get up to!" kind of reaction. I sincerely doubt that he felt hurt, threatened, or even very importuned by the pic. It was obviously not something he liked looking at, but neither was it something that upset him. He seems simply to think that anyone who makes such things is a bit nutty, and has tastes that are definitely not his own. but his reaction thereafter is "Hey, whatever". Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if, by the time he got back to his hotel, he'd forgotten the thing was even in his goody bag. Hoo boy!

Comments

[empressaurelius.livejournal.com]

Ooh, you're just BRILLIANT, hon. You've totally got the right of it. What slash writers do is the same, only in a much quieter sort of way. As far as tact and pliteness and everything like that disappearing from society, you're totally right, and it's very sad.


Our fandom is sometimes a very difficult, immmature entity.


Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

*sigh*

[serai1.livejournal.com]

Our fandom is sometimes a very difficult, immmature entity.

Yes, it can be. I don't despair, though, because this sort of thing comes out of positive origins on all sides. It was rude and uncouth to show Elijah that pic, but that's from my viewpoint. I just think back to when I was quiet young, and once tried to get backstage at a concert to throw myself at the lead singer. There are many who'd think that terribly rude, and they'd be right. But it was also heartfelt, impassioned and naive. And in my opinion, that's what was involved at the press conference, and so I don't believe anything will be solved by anger. :)

Re: *sigh*

[empressaurelius.livejournal.com]

You're right, of course. Anger only makes things worse, which is what we DON'T need. All this WANK.....It makes me ill.

[loreley-se.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, of course we don´t know Elijah and how he feels about this, but we judge from our own value systems. Now in my personal view, it is extremely rude to shove a picture like this under the nose of one of the persons who is in it. If someone did this to me, I´d tell them to fuck off in very clear terms. If someone does it to someone I like (and I like Elijah, even though I don´t KNOW him), I do the same. Do I sometimes wonder if I´m not as bad, since I´m reading slash and enjoying to look at manips myself? Yes I do. But I still think it is a difference between enjoying that stuff on the internet (where Elijah can see it as well, but then he can CHOOSE to look at it), or putting it right in front of that person. Particularly in a situation where that very person is watched by cameras and journalists.

I´m glad we were able to see how remarkably well Elijah handled the situation. He´s a big boy and he can deal with it, that became very obvious. He doesn´t need to be protected, that´s not the point. He has probably faxed the thing to Dom and they are having a laugh about it!

So, for me, rude behaviour and she deserved to be told. And now we will all move on to the next scandal :-)

(Geee, and now you´ve made me rant before 9.00 in the morning!!!!)

[serai1.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid it is the point, at least as I see it. We are not Elijah's friends or family, therefore we have no call to be riding in on white horses to save him, especially when we're seeing dragons and he's seeing windmills. Had Elijah shown upset at the picture, been obviously insulted, called security to kick the girls out, left the press conference, or any number of other negative reactions, then I could understand the impulse to be upset in commiseration.

But I'm a stranger with absolutely no tab on Elijah at all. His life was not threatened, nor his reputation tainted, nor his psyche scarred (that I can see). He had a moment of possibly embarrassing discomfort which he decided to make light of. As you say, he's probably going to milk the moment for every laugh he can get out of it with his friends. He'll likely forget about it much sooner than most people here will - I feel pretty sure he won't be dragging it out down the road as an example of how awful people can be. (He may use it as an example of how funny they can be though. I'd bet money on that.) So I have no call or right to abuse others in defense of a person who wasn't hurt, and who is not my responsibility.

Those girls do not deserves to be ranted at and belittled because, like it or not, they are Elijah's fans just as much as any of the rest of us. They love him just like we do, and they enjoy his work and his person just as we do. I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm pretty damn sure they didn't do it to hurt him. They just have a limited understanding of the effect of their actions, and/or a very limited understanding of how uncomfortable it can make a straight guy to see any such pictures, let alone any featuring themselves.

Ignorance and/or lack of understanding is not a sufficiently heinous sin to warrant being browbeaten or accused of nastiness. Such actions will not be righted by anger, nor will a mind be changed by it. Like the Buddhists say, compassion is what changes hearts. Anger will not change the past, neither will it alter behavior in a circumstance like this.

As I said before, most of us have encountered or been the subject of flames regarding fanfic, some of them quite heartfelt and outraged on behalf of the authors or actors who they feel have been insulted and violated. Did any of us "deserve" those flames? Did any of us act out of less love than the fans who disagree with us? (And yes, they are fans, just as much as we are. Just as much as these girls are.)

It's exactly the impulse to "get back at" others, to put them in their place, to make sure they know we don't like what they did, that I'm questioning here. How does it help anything or anyone to do that? Other than giving in to our impulse to anger, and playing to our fin-de-siecle tendency to put our own personal values and feelings of entitlement to impose them on others, just what is accomplished if I go over and yell at someone for something like this? It's done, it's over, and all I'll do is make her feel bad. I may think what she did was a sin, but I'm not God to punish her for it. Given the opportunity, I'd much rather aspire to be the Buddha, and give some careful advice, and hope to avert another such incident. That seems far more worthy an action to me than playing judge, jury and executioner all in one go.

Whoops!

[serai1.livejournal.com]

I meant to say, "our fin-de-siecle tendency to put our own personal values and feelings of entitlement above all else, and to impose them on others".

Damn keyboard gremlins!!

[serai1.livejournal.com]

Plus, it should have been giants, not dragons. Yikes. Must brush up on my classical references!

[loreley-se.livejournal.com]

Having gone through LJ today, geez, it did blow out of proportion. Too little to talk about otherwise, I guess.

No, Elijah wasn´t hurt or threatened, and I too don´t think there were any sinister motives behind giving him the manip.

However - the thing pissed me off (because they did it, because they did it in a very very public situation, and because they were so very smug about it afterwards) and if I´m pissed of I say so. I do that in RL too. Which doesn´t mean I necessarly agree with all the other comments. Might be the blunt self-righteous German in me ;-)

Hej, I guess we just have to agree to disagree if that´s ok :-)

[serai1.livejournal.com]

Hey, I fly off the handle too, on occasion. Being a complete bitch, I'm not always in control of my tongue. But it just seemed to me that this whole thing had gotten out of hand, and I remember being young and stupid in just the same way as these girls, and since Elijah didn't get mad, I thought "Man, y'all are just taking this too hard, and making it a reason to get crazy on people".

I'm glad you weren't offended by my frankness. :)

[loreley-se.livejournal.com]

No, I absolutely wasn´t! :-)

[marigold6.livejournal.com]

Very well said...and I must agree. We should all act like the adults we think we are (or pretend to be) - and after watching the video about a dozen times now, I think he handled it very well - and much better than most would in his position. Thanks, Serai...

[serai1.livejournal.com]

Thanks, hon. It's not always easy, but you're right - we should always try to act like the adults we'd like to be. (Must remember that the next time my boss insists on me staying late at work, lol!)

By the way, where is the video? I've only seen a couple of photos, and I very much would like to see his reaction in total so I can judge it better for myself. Can you point me to a link?

[cassiopeia3019.livejournal.com]

It seems to me this whole 'thing' is a storm in a teacup. I put my thoughts forward about it (I thought it was inappropriate to show Elijah such pictures; it's a far cry from him looking up such things on the web than shoving them in his face) and forgot about it (till I check my flist again!) I wouldn't dare say I know Elijah, but being as busy as he is, I'm sure he's forgotten about it. Let's move on and not get angry about something so silly. Look at the world today -- is THIS something we should be getting angry about?

I think I'm going to read some nice Sean/Elijah RPS now. Don't tell Elijah that.

[serai1.livejournal.com]

Having finally seen the video, I agree. It has been blown way out of proportion. Elijah did the right thing by acknowledging the pic briefly and then dropping the subject. It showed that, while he was not pleased by the image, neither was he particularly insulted or hurt by it. And goodness, the way some people talked, I expected that chick to be drooling and squealing. All in all, it seemed just an uncomfortable little blip in his day, not the major sin that so many seem to think it was.

[cassiopeia3019.livejournal.com]

I just saw the video. I felt embarrassed and uncomfortable for Elijah, but he handled it very well. It's not like Elijah didn't know about such pictures beforehand -- he saw them on some other show. Now some artists are taking down their web pages -- why didn't they do that before, when we first realised Elijah knew of such images? He clearly knows about slash and the pics -- and for some time I'd imagine. It's probably not something he'd like to discuss in public, but (to me, anyway) it doesn't seem like he's overly disturbed by it. He was even *joking* about it. He does say 'this is so wrong', but that seems like a natural reaction to having that kind of thing shoved in your face. Then he goes on to say 'that is hilarious.' I'm sure he's been through many other embarrassing situations in his life and gotten over them. Anyway, I'm over it, and I reckon Elijah is, too.

[serai1.livejournal.com]

That he can look at a picture of himself like that, say "This is so wrong", and immediately after say, "This is hilarious", is one of the reasons I love him, and would just as happily feed him crabmeat empanadas as fuck his brains out. He's just such an all-around worthwhile guy.

*sigh*

Why can't I find any guys like that?

[serai1.livejournal.com]

Thanks, hon. We are very lucky that the LOTR actors tolerate our weirdness, and don't feel compelled to shove their way into our personal entertainments, giving orders on what we can write or paint or think. You'd THINK some fans would have the friggin' brains to return the favor!!! But, as good ol' Harlan says, "The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." And as Frank Zappa said, "Stupidity is more common than hydrogen, and it has a longer shelf life."

I don't understand the rudeness it takes to shove something like that in someone's face, let alone a young, straight, American guy's face. Hell, I have a hard time just approaching someone like Elijah, let alone flashing my fantasies at him. Yeesh.

[celandine-g.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your interesting thoughts and I do agree.

As you said, most of the critics are not looking at it from Elijah's perspective. I think he is of a generation that is not so hung up on sexual innuendo, open sexual references, outrageous manips, or things like slash--at least compared to those of us who were raised in an earlier era. I'm sure he is well aware of what is happening on the Internet and in journals like ours.

*waves* Hi Lij!

He is just as capable of searching it out as we are. So I can really see him taking this incident as a joke (perhaps tasteless but a joke nonetheless), and just moving on. We should too.

[serai1.livejournal.com]

I don't know about the generational thing. I came of age in the 70s, and I've never understood the prudish tsking that I encounter from folks younger than me. I find it very strange that a 40-something like myself can be more relaxed about sexuality than a 20-something, but it has often been the case. I think it has less to do with age than with upbringing. Elijah may not have been brought up in a hippie-ish household, but he was brought up to have his own mind and confidence in himself. And having that, I guess he's decided this kind of thing is simply not worth getting upset about.

*sigh* I do love that guy.

[celandine-g.livejournal.com]

Well, you definitely have a point. It does of course depend on the upbringing and individual inclination. There are certainly both prudes and free-thinkers in all generations.

But when I see Elijah and his friends having fun, they all just seem so comfortable with themselves and able to show physical affection for each other without feeling any fear of who sees it or how it might be interpreted. It's like, who cares, we are who we are and we won't let anyone tell us how to behave with our friends. They all seem so cool and I'd be really surprised if any of them are scandalized by anything you can find on the Internet.

That's just so nice and refreshing to see, but I really don't know if they are typical of their generation. Perhaps not. Or maybe it's an actor thing? I don't know.

But I don't remember feeling that free when I was their age so I really envy them that.

And yes, I know what you mean about Elijah. Sigh. What a guy. I saw a great icon recently that had his picture with the caption: "All will love me and despair." How true, how true, hehe. :)

[lucky-jack.livejournal.com]

Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to say, had I had the eloquence or the get up and go. Instead I made a small post in my journal along the same lines. I won't repeat what I said there here, but I just wanted to say 'well said'!

[serai1.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome. There's so much overreaction in this fandom, I sometimes understand why we're considered the wankiest online. ;)

[fyrdrakken]

I thought that was the Harry Potter fandom?

[fyrdrakken]

Reminds me of an incident from my first fandom -- ST: DS9 and Rene Auberjonois. There was an incident at the first con I was able to meet him at where a zine editor friend got him to autograph her own copy of the zine she'd just finished, and the back cover was of his character and another (female) character in a tasteful but R-rated pose. I'd have freaked at the thought of showing him something like that -- but he thought it was great!